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Old 28th February 2012, 03:59 AM   #1
Johnnybonkel
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Default I got scammed for $6000

Oh boy was this Guy very very good...

On 1st february I had an email to my ebay mail box sending me a phone number asking I call to discuss the "Rare PAM 89 Panerai GMT Titanium" I had for sale. He asked the right questions and sounded bright , intelligent and respectable. He gave me his email and asked for extra photo's. I sent them. Next day he called and we agreed a price of $6000. He said he would WIRE the money that day. I looked at my account and there was $6k. I called my bank and asked "Can you check I have recieved a WIRE" - They said was it from KELLY STUART in Califoria and they said yes. I then asked - "This money is dead safe is it?". The bank said yes its in you account. I sent the watch. Kelly Stuart had his 'office manager' send me thier own UPS A/C with a temp' password so I could print the shipping label. I did and it worked.
8 days later the funds vanished out of my account. It was not a WIRE I had recieved (even though the bank said it was) it was a forged cashiers check. This Kelly Stuart had got my A/C number and gone into a bank in California and paid a forged 1st bank of Califorinia cashiers check into my bank and it had taken 8 days to realize these funds were not available. The bank said that EVEN WIRE TRANSFERS CAN BE REVERSED (!!!!) and even though they said it was a wire it doesnt matter it is my loss they will not help.
What I now know is that there is a small p[rint next to the amount shown in you account as recieved. You need to click this and only then would you see this was a cashiers check. NEVER TAKE YOUR BANKS WORD - CHECK!
I am now fighting with the bank as I was (I thought) so careful - I actually asked "So there is noway these funds can be recalled AND I WAS TOLD NO"
I'm trying to get the taped calls...you know I'll loose!

Be careful team!
John.
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Old 10th March 2012, 10:57 PM   #2
Mark1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnybonkel View Post
Oh boy was this Guy very very good...

On 1st february I had an email to my ebay mail box sending me a phone number asking I call to discuss the "Rare PAM 89 Panerai GMT Titanium" I had for sale. He asked the right questions and sounded bright , intelligent and respectable. He gave me his email and asked for extra photo's. I sent them. Next day he called and we agreed a price of $6000. He said he would WIRE the money that day. I looked at my account and there was $6k. I called my bank and asked "Can you check I have recieved a WIRE" - They said was it from KELLY STUART in Califoria and they said yes. I then asked - "This money is dead safe is it?". The bank said yes its in you account. I sent the watch. Kelly Stuart had his 'office manager' send me thier own UPS A/C with a temp' password so I could print the shipping label. I did and it worked.
8 days later the funds vanished out of my account. It was not a WIRE I had recieved (even though the bank said it was) it was a forged cashiers check. This Kelly Stuart had got my A/C number and gone into a bank in California and paid a forged 1st bank of Califorinia cashiers check into my bank and it had taken 8 days to realize these funds were not available. The bank said that EVEN WIRE TRANSFERS CAN BE REVERSED (!!!!) and even though they said it was a wire it doesnt matter it is my loss they will not help.
What I now know is that there is a small p[rint next to the amount shown in you account as recieved. You need to click this and only then would you see this was a cashiers check. NEVER TAKE YOUR BANKS WORD - CHECK!
I am now fighting with the bank as I was (I thought) so careful - I actually asked "So there is noway these funds can be recalled AND I WAS TOLD NO"
I'm trying to get the taped calls...you know I'll loose!

Be careful team!
John.
Really sorry to hear you got scammed, in this manner too! I've never heard of this one before but it does make you think! Best of luck with the bank.

Mark
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Old 6th April 2012, 12:44 AM   #3
Shola
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Wire transfers that have been properly credited to your bank account cannot be reversed. If your bank reverses money out of your account without your authorization, you will have a very valid breach of contract or fiduciary claim against them.

In this case, the idiot deposited a "cashiers' check and it was fake. Sorry about your loss.
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Old 6th April 2012, 10:57 AM   #4
rolexplorer2
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This is terrible and the Bank should be held responsible for allowing this to happen. I would persue this to the ultimate conclusion and i hope you win. Couldnt the bank spot the forged cheque ! What is the point of having a fraud dept if they dont do anything to protect the customer. I am so mad for you as i have heard of this type of scam before,i am so angry !
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Old 6th April 2012, 04:12 PM   #5
marathonmatt
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Thanks for the detailed info. Hope that it keeps the "next guy" from becoming a victim.

Best of luck with the banks.
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Old 6th April 2012, 11:44 PM   #6
rolexredneck
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Default scammed

i am sorry for your loss it appears as though you were very careful. its hard to protect yourself from thieves.
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Old 30th April 2012, 03:05 AM   #7
greensubmariner
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This stinks so bad!!! Is there a way to trace the adress you sent it to? I realize the bank dropped the ball and allowed the fraudulent wire; but is there a way to file some sort of claim against the adress?
I have been wanting to sell a watch on ebay but now I am really not interested in going that route.
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Old 1st June 2012, 05:25 AM   #8
Johnnybonkel
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Update....
Guys...FACT...wire transfers CAN be reversed IF the money is still there in your account...please don't believe in the almost unanimous belief that wire transfers are cast iron safe...they are not ...they are pretty safe but NOT 100%
Best practice...wait at least48hours prior to sending anything or get your bank to verify funds have been cleared fully and finally.secondly...move money from the account it was credited to...as in my case one of the banks arguments is " what's the problem it was paid in and then withdrawn so it has netted out". I promise folks I would never have believed it if it had not happend to me.
Be careful!
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Old 2nd June 2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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A PAM 89 came and went through our office recently. If you want to email me the production number to thewatchcollector@gmail.com I will cross reference the numbers for you.
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Don't PM me, I won't read it!!! Email or call if you need me, thanks!
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Old 15th June 2012, 03:35 AM   #10
Johnnybonkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shola View Post
Wire transfers that have been properly credited to your bank account cannot be reversed. If your bank reverses money out of your account without your authorization, you will have a very valid breach of contract or fiduciary claim against them.

In this case, the idiot deposited a "cashiers' check and it was fake. Sorry about your loss.
You are wrong.
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Old 15th June 2012, 03:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnybonkel View Post
You are wrong.
Ok, I am listening.
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Old 17th June 2012, 07:31 AM   #12
Johnnybonkel
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Since you said this I have gone back through this and you and unfortunately and catagorically you are wrong. Truth is that any funds from whatever source credited to you account by any means CAN be taken from you account if the bank cannot subsequently obtain funds. In my case it was 15 days after cashiers checks had been "cleared" that the funds were taken out of my account. Since your post I have specifically checked and even a wire transfer has a window of in my banks case 14 days when they can be reversed. (if the funds origins are brought intoquestion) The catch is in the small print in your banking agreement. It also is dependent on the funds still being in the account they were credit to. My advice is as soon as you receive funds move to another account. (technically spent).
I had very clear and precisely spoken confirmation by my bank that these funds we safely in my account and could not be taken. Hence I sent the watch. The funds were taken back AND DESPITE WELLS FARGO BANKER ASSURING ME ON 4 SEPARATE OCCASSIONS THAT THESE FUNDS WE IN MY ACCOUNT AND IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR E TO LOOSE THE FUNDS...THEY STILL TOOK THE MONEY BACK SOME TIME LATER. WELLS FARGO HAVE OFFERED NOT EVEN AS MUCH AS A "SORRY TO HEAR OF YOUR PROBLEM". THEY HAVE ACCEPTED NO RESPONSIBILITYEVEN THOUGH THEY GAVE ME INCORRECT ADVICE ON SEVERAL CALLS THAT ARE RECORDED.
I have lived all over the world. I am a premier customer with Wells Fargo and quite simply they are singularly the worst corporate entity I have ever delt with ever. So...unfortunately your advice is incorrect even if grounded in law...so is your signed banking agreement.

Last edited by Johnnybonkel; 17th June 2012 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 17th June 2012, 09:35 AM   #13
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Wire transfers that are properly credited to your account are considered to be collected funds and they can't be unilaterally reversed out of your account without your authorization. Of course it can be reversed unilaterally pursuant to a court order,and if the bank or IRS made a mistake.

My statement was limited to wire transfers only. In your case, the bank reversed the deposit because it was a fraudulent check deposit and the funds were uncollectable.

You said that the bank took the money out 15 days after the check had cleared. That can't be true because the check never cleared. You heard the bannk tell you that the funds were "available", but that is not the same as the funds being "collected".

Last, your proposed remedy of moving the funds to another account will not help because the other account will be overdrawn if the bank has reason to reverse any credit to that account.

Last edited by Shola; 17th June 2012 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 18th June 2012, 05:40 AM   #14
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Shola is right - wires cannot be reversed IN MOST CASES.

However, there are a few places and few banks that will actually recall funds within 24 hours. After 24 hours, unilaterally across the globe the wire is secured (unless you recieved it in error or a court order is issued).

Best practice - wait 24 hours, make sure you check online banking to see WIRE instead of ATM DEPOSIT or other wording - and buy the buyer just as the buyer has to buy the seller.

****ty luck my friend, I wish you the best. Call the PAM head office and put it on the stolen list and post the serial number stolen EVERYWHERE you can across the internet.

If it was a rather local deal or within the same country, google all the pawn shops within 50 miles of the destination address and ask if they have it.

Also call the police in his destination area and report it. Theyll try to scare him.

GL
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Old 31st July 2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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Just wondering, did you contact the police from the area that you sent it to? If so were they of any help? Sorry to hear about your loss.
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Old 10th December 2013, 02:55 PM   #16
gdbale
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Brutal!

Sorry to hear
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Old 11th December 2013, 07:02 PM   #17
FJyota
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The old fake cashier's check impersonating a wire transfer con sounds timeless, man!


Apologies, I couldn't help myself.
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